Putin Valdai Club Q&A Session Part Two

Yes, quite a long discussion. I discovered the transcript too long and had to edit it into a second part. The transcript is now complete. Here's Part Two:

Fyodor Lukyanov: Then Nelson Wong, probably.

Natalie Wong (retranslated): Thank you.

My name is Nelson Wong, Shanghai, China. It is a great honour for me to be here, Mr President.

In your speech and your remarks, you mentioned that the rules-based world order has been and continues to be used very often by the West, although it is not clear where this order came from. And I must say that this issue has been discussed quite often over the past four days here as part of our discussions.

Mr. President, my question is as follows. Looking to the future, we see that we are entering an era when there will be no superpowers. I must say that we talked about this on the first day of our discussions. Because the only superpower, the United States, is losing control and we are entering a new era. This is not only the beginning of the end of the superpower status of the United States, moreover, we are already in the process of this loss.

At the new stage, I think we will also need certain rules. If we want to develop such rules, from your point of view, Mr President, what rules would be most important? It is clear that there are no such rules yet, but as a hypothesis: what principles must be observed when new rules are developed?

Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: Why are there no such rules? They exist, they are laid down in the Charter of the United Nations. And these rules are called international law. We just need everyone to follow and understand these rules equally. It is possible to abandon these rules or radically modernize them only when the basis for the development of relations on some other principles is prepared.

The Charter of the United Nations fixed the existing balance of power after the Second World War. Of course, the world is fundamentally changing, it has changed. Such giants as China, like India, like Indonesia, with a large population, are growing, in Africa such huge countries are emerging, developing – 200 million people a population of 200 million people, in Latin America.

The world is changing. Of course, the norms of international law should follow these changes and regulate relations between states in accordance with the balance of power that develops in real life in the world. But this should be done calmly, slowly, according to understandable principles, and not by someone invented rules.

I said in the introduction, and who read these rules? They talk about some rules – what rules? Where are they written, who agreed? Nonsense is simple. For idiots, is that all being said? To some general audience of people who do not even know how to read properly. What are the rules, who worked with them? Nonsense is simple, and that's it. No, it's endless, as they say in our country. As for those who do not comply with them, we will impose some restrictions and sanctions.

They are waging a trade war with China and so on in this regard, pointing out what China should do in its individual provinces, regulate what relations should be there, and respect for human rights. These are tools in the fight against the People's Republic of China, and instruments of unfair competition, that's what it is. They are afraid of the growing power of China, and because of this, everything is happening: they are looking for human rights, and individual regions of China are put under the distribution of solutions to current issues of an economic and political nature. The only point is this: the fight against China as a growing competitor, and all sorts of tools are being invented.

What can be the basis - respect for interests, openness and general rules, uniformly understood and applied by all participants in international communication. We need to achieve this balance of interests, restore this balance of interests and follow these norms. But it seems to me that this should be done in public, and not behind the scenes, not in the interests of one country or a group of countries, but in the interests of the entire international community.

Fyodor Lukyanov: Mr President, without leaving China, and a little bit to the previous question about green energy and so on. It is clear that the European energy market, apparently, in the coming years will close for us altogether. There is such a possibility.

Are we ready to quickly build infrastructure for Asian markets?

Vladimir Putin: You know, we did not do this based on today's conjuncture, we did it a long time ago. The Power of Siberia was built not in connection with the events in Ukraine – it was built because we were aware that the energy needs of our friends in China are growing, and we have the opportunity to meet these needs.

We are also negotiating with India on various ways to deliver our energy resources to the Indian market and with other countries. We will continue to liquefy natural gas. Our participation in global LNG markets is still modest, but it is growing constantly. We'll continue to do that. I repeat, we will develop this area not even because of today's restrictions, but because these are the trends in the development of the global economy.

The Chinese economy in terms of purchasing power parity has become larger than the American one – this is a fact, and the needs are growing. Why should we – especially our friends, neighbours, we have wonderful relations, a common border – not supply us there in the same way as in other Asian countries? We've done it and we're going to do it.

Now, in fact, we have already agreed on a new system through Mongolia. Both Mongolia and China are interested. We will let our friends and partners into our mining resources – why not – as we did with the Europeans, with the Americans, but they prefer to leave our market – the flag is in their hands, let them move wherever they want, in any direction. Is it good for them or not? I think it's actually bad.

They leave with losses at that. Whoever wants to go, we are open for cooperation, this process will continue. Whether we are ready for this or not, we have been preparing for this for many years, and we will continue this process further. I don't see any insurmountable obstacles here, no issues that we could not resolve, everything will be resolved.

Alexander Dzermant: Alexei Dzermant, Minsk, Belarus.

Before I ask my question, Mr President, I would like to convey the words of support from many, many Belarusians. I often meet with them at discussion platforms, where we discuss, including Ukraine, events. Therefore, you personally and Russia, which is fighting Nazism in Ukraine, have the most ardent support from the citizens of my country.

I would like to ask the following question. Due to the fact that the West, in fact, builds real walls, arranges a blockade, sanctions pressure on the Republic of Belarus and Russia, the North-South corridor is now becoming very important in logistical and financial terms. Of course, it is important to fill it now with specific projects that include both Russia and Belarus.

But don't you think that with the growth of the development of Asia and the East as a whole, we need not only to develop the material infrastructure, but also to pay attention to the cultural and humanitarian aspect, so that we have ideas, values, certain views on the world with the countries of the East?

Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: You are right. But that's what we do. And not even because someone builds a wall from the West, and we always do.

After all, look, the bulk of Russia's population is located in the European part, but the territory is largely beyond the Ural Mountains, so Russia is a Eurasian country, we always remember this, we have never forgotten about it. We have traditionally developed relations with Asian countries, and even more so now, when there is such an explosive growth there – not right now, for several years already.

We see all this, so we have largely reoriented our cooperation with Asian countries. Well, of course, is it possible to develop economic ties without paying attention to the humanitarian component? But, to a certain extent, China and India are the "cradle" of world civilizations, we always treat this with great respect, attention and interest.

The interest of the Russian public in these civilizations has always been very high. By the way, schools studying India, China, the culture of this and that state, the peoples of these states, and these are also multinational states, we have a very high level of science in these areas, this has always been traditional for Russia, and we will support this in the future.

Fyodor Lukyanov: Colleagues, the fourth hour of our work has begun. I think that we have already abused the time of the President of the Russian Federation. One other question is there that anyone else has? Eat.

Vladimir Putin: Please.

Pete Mtembu (retranslated): Thank you. Pilani Mtembu from South Africa, Institute for Global Dialogue.

Mr. President, you said that the West is not able to unilaterally lead all of humanity and that we need to build a symphony of human civilization. I would be interested if you could tell us in more detail about your thoughts if we want to build a multipolar world order, the importance of regional cooperation as a way to maintain and build such bricks of multipolarity.

And a few more words from the point of view of Russian cooperation with Africa, in particular related to the Russia-Africa summit.

Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: We have very good, traditionally good relations with Africa as a whole, including with the Republic of South Africa, since, as you know, Africa's struggle for its independence, since the struggle against colonialism. This absolutely unique relationship developed during the years when the Soviet Union and Russia supported African states in their struggle for their freedom.

And this foundation of our relations, which developed in previous decades, of course, should be used in the new conditions to develop multilateral relations with African states today, including with the Republic of South Africa, which, as you know, is a very active and effective partner of ours within brics.

We value this, we know the possibilities of the Republic of South Africa. We know the opportunities and are confident in the future of the African continent and, of course, we will develop our relations with African countries – both with those with which we have developed traditional relations over the past decades, and with those with which they are developing only now.

But as for the essence of your question and the first part of it. In principle, it seems to me that I have replied that I will hardly be able to detail my position in a short answer.

We need to find a balance of interests. This cannot be done under conditions of hegemony or an attempt to preserve the hegemony of one country or group of countries vis-à-vis the rest of humanity. These hegemons will have to reckon with these legitimate demands of the overwhelming majority of participants in international communication – and not in words, but in deeds.

What's going on? In words, everyone is for equality, for the support of African countries, for example, and so on. In words, everything sounds beautiful, but in practice what happens? After all, what instruments are used today, say, the instrument of the same dollar or other currencies, say, the euro. What happens in practical life? $5.9 trillion has been printed in the last two years and €2.9 trillion has been printed. Where did that money go? They went to buy goods on world markets, and the United States from a net importer of food began to buy more on world food markets than to sell to world markets, began to buy food due to the fact that they have a printing press.

That's what a financial monopoly leads to – there was a deficit right away. Not only was there a crop failure the previous year and the pandemic, a reduction in production, money was printed in the fight against the pandemic, thrown to their population – food purchases began, prices went up. And who suffers? First of all, the countries of Africa and to some extent Latin America and Asia. Is anyone thinking about that? Of course, those who do think. They didn't care about the consequences. They solve their interests without thinking about the consequences that are coming for the same African countries.

The same thing is happening in another part of the food market related to fertilizers. Listen, how can that be? I have already said this, and I will say it again. How was it possible to make a decision to lift restrictions and bans on Russian fertilizers in Europe, and then issue an explanation that these restrictions were lifted only for EU countries? Are they completely crazy, or what? They also issued this clarification in writing. How can you imagine that? But they do it without hesitation, without anything. Is it a balance of interests, or what?

We have already said many times: 300,000 tonnes of fertilisers have been seized and are lying in European ports. Our companies are ready to give away for free, but do not give, including to African countries. Some African leaders asked me where exactly. I asked the assistants to send out where and how much they found – 300,000 tons, which is millions of dollars.

Give it to the poorest countries, they need it. No, they don't let go. Is it a balance of interests? If you want to fight Russia, the flag is in your hands, fight. You do not want us to receive additional income, we give it away for free, there is no income. Give it to developing countries, your actions only contribute to the fact that prices rise. Why are you doing this? So, they're interested in that.

Is it a balance of interests? How to ensure that the relationship is stable? We must achieve this balance, we must act within the framework of the norms that we call the norms of international law, we must coordinate and adhere to them, including in the financial sphere, we must create independent systems of international settlements, which I spoke about.

I have given a concrete example of what the endless emission, the unlimited emission of major currencies leads to. It also has practical implications, including and above all for developing countries.

I would like to return to this once again: in order for the world to be stable, we need to achieve this balance of interests.

Please raise your hand here.

Fyodor Lukyanov: Natalia Zeiser.

David Konstantakopoulos (retranslated): Mr President, two small questions.

Vladimir Putin: This is not like Natalia, of course.

Dmitry Konstantakopoulos: Do you think the time has come for deeper integration in the former Soviet Union?

And the second question. What is your message to ordinary westerners? If you had a Western citizen in front of you, what would you say to him?

Vladimir Putin: First, with regard to integration.

It's a very subtle question. Here, too, we must achieve exactly what I have said about the whole world – we must achieve a balance of interests. This should be done professionally, without any haste and consistently. We have certain plans within the Eurasian Economic Union. This concerns the lifting of restrictions on the most important commodity groups to fully ensure the free movement of goods, finance, capital and labor.

I do not consider it expedient to get ahead of ourselves, as it was, say, in the European Union, when some countries with a certain level of economic development fell into the euro area, and then did not know what to do about it, because problems arise when the inflation instrument becomes inaccessible to regulating the situation within the economy. I am referring to the well-known situation, for example, with Greece, and with some other countries.

Therefore, we should not get ahead of ourselves, but we should consistently go to the implementation of the plans that have been outlined. We know what we must do in this direction, and we will do it without fail, taking into account the interests of all participants in this process.

As for our message to ordinary citizens of Western countries, both the United States and Europe. I want to say the most important thing: fight for higher wages – this is the first thing. Second, don't believe that Russia is your enemy or even your adversary. Russia is your friend, and we have been doing everything for decades and are ready to do everything in the future in order to strengthen our relations.

In this regard, an anecdote that I recently told my colleagues came to mind. A friend from Germany told me it recently. The family, the son asks his father: "Daddy, why is it so cold?" And he says: "Because Russia attacked Ukraine." The child asks: "What do we have to do with this?" – "And we imposed sanctions against the Russians." - "Why?" - "To make them feel bad." - "Are we Russians?"

I want to say that all the problems, and this is addressing the citizens of European countries in this case, and the United States, all the problems that arise in this regard are not related to Russia's actions. They are associated with systemic errors of your political leadership, the political leadership of your countries – in the energy sector, in the food sector, and in the sphere of monetary policy, which led to an unprecedented increase in inflation and energy shortages. Russia has nothing to do with it, this is the result of systemic mistakes by the leadership of your countries. And we need to conduct a sound analysis of what is happening, and seek a change in economic policy.

As for international politics, of course, this is always the decision of sovereign states, but it should certainly be based on the opinion of voters, ordinary citizens of a particular country. But ordinary citizens should know – I'll end where I started : Russia is not an enemy and has never had any malicious intentions against European states and the United States.

And we know that we, Russia, have a lot of friends there. We will build our relations with the so-called collective West, relying on this part of the population of European countries and the United States.

Fyodor Lukyanov: Mr President, does the call to fight for higher wages also apply to Russian citizens?

Vladimir Putin: Yes.

Fyodor Lukyanov: Great. Everyone heard.

Vladimir Putin: And I must tell you that this is one of the fundamental issues that the Government should deal with, and the trade unions are doing this, doing it no matter what, doing it, despite any special operations.

There is a complex dialogue in the tripartite commission between employers' representatives, trade unions and the Government. That dialogue is ongoing.

We see that the nominal incomes of citizens are growing, and the real ones have become a little lower. Bearing in mind the state of the Russian economy, we can and must solve these problems. In accordance with the existing plans of the Russian Government, I hope that all the tasks that we set for ourselves in this sense and in this vein will be resolved.

Someone else wants to [ask a question].

Fyodor Lukyanov: Mr President, you do not command here, I am commanding here. (Laughter.)

Vladimir Putin: This is called hegemonism.

Fyodor Lukyanov: We have not yet overcome what to do.

Colleagues, I propose a blitz at the end. Natalia [Zeiser] is offended, and there are two more questions, and we will finish there.

Vladimir Putin: All right.

Fyodor Lukyanov: Natalia.

Nikolai Zeiser: Mr President, good evening.

Natalia Zeiser, African Business Initiative.

For almost 15 years I have been engaged in the development of international relations and the expansion of contacts in the field of public diplomacy. As a person who builds bridges, it is important for me to always project some actions in the future.

It is obvious that we are facing a new historical stage, and when the chapter of current events is completed, there will be a need to form new or other institutions of international partnership. And we are probably not talking about determined countries, but also about countries that, due to their geopolitical position, cannot openly express their intentions and position.

Mr President, how do you see the new institution of international partnership? What basis of parity is Russia ready to offer to the international level? What mechanisms, tools and persons are needed to acquire new allies, partners and friends not at a declarative level, but at a level that is fundamentally responsible in their agreements? Do you think it makes sense for us to change some or build other approaches within the framework of the international partnership of the future?

Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: You know, you have such a broad question, if you can call it a question, it's kind of a position.

Here's what I'd like to say. It seems to me that I have already answered almost what you just asked. We must and can focus on cooperation, especially with those countries that are sovereign in making their fundamental decisions. That's the first thing.

Second. Consensus must be sought in these decisions.

And, thirdly, to achieve a balance of interests.

Within which institutions? First of all, of course, these are universal international organisations, and the number one here is the United Nations.

Fyodor Lukyanov: Alan Freeman, please.

Alexander Freeman (retranslated): Mr President, I came from Canada, a NATO country. The future Prime Minister, or rather his grandfather, was a Banderaite. Dissatisfaction with NATO's position is heard around the world, and there are many voices in the global South. These voices exist both in the North and in the collective West. Why don't we hear them? Because they're being suppressed.

Look at what happened to Julian Assange. The media, political elites, academic elites are waging an unprecedented campaign, it is racist and Russophobic, it intimidates people, it does not allow to express the full measure of disagreement with what their governments are doing. Here you do not see the full scale of the opposition that exists in Europe, in Canada, in the UK, here you do not see it.

What can we do to build a relationship between those in the collective West fighting what their government is doing and those who support what is happening in the global South and in Russia for Russia's brave actions on the global stage?

Vladimir Putin: It seems to me that no one should sacrifice anything from the set of their national interests, they just need to fight for their national interests, and we will work with you in unison.

Of course, we are not immersed in the details of the internal political struggle in the countries of the collective West, as you mentioned. We are not engaged – you know, probably better than I do – with some practically at the level of special services working with the opposition, as the West does with us and with regard to our opposition. We know that hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars are spent there to support the opposition, and in all areas, through various channels, in order to send financial resources to Russia for these purposes. We don't even have time to keep an eye on it. But we don't do any of that.

But we are counting on the fact – and I have said this many times today, I think even in my speech – that our very position on the fundamental issues of the development of international relations and the development of societies is attractive to a large number of people not only in the world as a whole, but also in Western countries.

I just said that. We know we have a lot of supporters there. Relying on these supporters, we will build relations with the countries of the so-called collective West.

For my part, I can only wish you success in the struggle for your national interests. This will be enough to establish good relations with Russia.

(Addressing F. Lukyanov.)

Still, let me have the last word.

I will ask you to raise the hand of anyone present and answer your question.

Yes. You are welcome.

Fyodor Lukyanov: Gabor Stir.

Gennady Stir: Good afternoon Mr President.

At the beginning of the conversation, you talked about what the goals were, how did you assess the situation, and my question is as follows: on February 24, did you think that in eight months the SVO would continue? And not only the situation continues, but also escalates. In addition, many in the world already fear the beginning of the Third World War.

Hence the question. One of my favorite cities in the post-Soviet space is Odessa. What do you think, give me advice: if I would like to go there next summer or in two years...

Vladimir Putin: Do not delay, go as fast as possible. Joke. Just kidding.

Gennady Stir: In two years, then I have to ask for a Russian or Ukrainian visa?

Vladimir Putin: You know, Odessa is indeed one of the most beautiful cities in the world. As you know, Odessa was founded by Catherine II, and even extreme nationalists, in my opinion, do not dare to demolish the monument to the founder of the city.

Odessa can be a bone of contention, a symbol of conflict resolution, and a symbol of finding some kind of solution to everything that is happening now. It's not about us. We have said many times that we are ready for negotiations, and I recently spoke in the Kremlin and publicly mentioned this once again. But the leaders of the Kiev regime decided not to continue negotiations with the Russian Federation. Those who – and there are a lot of them... True, the decisive word belongs to those who implement this policy in Washington. It is very easy to solve this problem: to give an appropriate signal to Kiev that they should change their position and strive to resolve these problems peacefully. That's it.

As for your possible trip to Odessa, then, without any jokes, I recommend you to do it. This is really a very good, beautiful city with wonderful traditions and history. It's worth admiring.

True, in recent years, at least when I was in Odessa, it did not make the best impression on me, because obviously the communal services were in decline, it was visible even in the facades of the buildings, although in the center there seemed to be nothing still preserved, a little to the side – there everything already looked not so presentable. But Odessa is worth a look.

Let's wrap it up. You are welcome.

Fyodor Lukyanov: Then Carlos Ron, after all, Venezuela is like without it.

Vladimir Putin: Venezuela?

Fyodor Lukyanov: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: I would like the Russians to finish. Come on.

Kirill Ron (retranslated): Mr President, greetings from Venezuela, from your friend President Nicolas Maduro.

At the moment, about 30 percent of the world's countries are under some kind of illegal sanctions from the United States. You spoke about the importance of protecting the principles enshrined in the UN Charter. Last month, the Group of Friends in Defence of the UN Charter met in New York, and one of the issues that was raised at the meeting was: how to contribute to the creation of a zone free of illegal sanctions, where it would be possible to conduct business without fear of such sanctions?

What do you think Russia could do to create such a space? And how do you think that could happen? Maybe you have some other message for the people of Venezuela.

Vladimir Putin: By countering the sanctions that have been imposed on it, Russia is creating, in a sense, a space of freedom so that it is possible not to be afraid of sanctions pressure and to freely develop economic ties between the most diverse regions of the world and the most diverse countries.

There is no need for any special solutions. It's just that the very example of what's going on, I think, is revealing. Just now, my colleague asked what signals we are ready to send to citizens of European and Western countries in general. I said this, but I also spoke about the mistakes made by the political leadership of Western countries in the global economy, financial, energy and food.

Here's one confirmation. Sanctions were imposed against Venezuela. It was one of the largest oil producers until recently. Sanctions were imposed against Iran, sanctions were imposed against Russia. Saudi Arabia is now being threatened with sanctions. They want to impose a restriction on the prices of Russian oil and gas. Well, at every step they make a mistake that leads to severe consequences for the countries that impose these sanctions. This is just one example. And then they look for someone to blame. They do everything with their own hands, and then they look for someone to blame.

Nevertheless, Venezuela is developing. There are big problems, we know this, but Venezuela is overcoming them.

These sanctions were imposed on Russia, and we expected a complete collapse of the Russian economy, and we talked about this at the beginning of our meeting today. But this blitzkrieg against the Russian economy did not take place.

What is going on? Look, inflation will be about 12 percent for the year, and it tends to decrease. In the first quarter of next year, according to our experts, it will be somewhere in the region of 5 percent. In the EU countries with developed economies – 17 (here in the Netherlands), and in some – 21–23 [percent], twice as much as in our country.

Unemployment is 3.8 percent. It has become lower, unemployment, than in the pre-pandemic period – it was 4.7. Next year we have a budget deficit of 2 percent, then 1.4 percent, and 0.7 percent a year later. In almost all eurozone countries, it is higher. Public debt is fundamentally lower than in the eurozone, either in the States or in Britain.

We will have an economic downturn this year – about 2.8–2.9 percent. Will. But industrial production and processing remain at about the same level. The construction and construction sector grew by more than 5 percent – 5.1 percent – in the first eight months of this year. Agriculture has doubled and the trend is on the rise.

We are increasing the volume of lending to both the corporate and consumption sectors. There was an increase in lending. Yes, we have seen some issues related to the outflow of money from banks related to well-known events. Money has started to come back, and citizens are doing the right thing, because rather than keeping money under the pillow, losing money on inflation, it is better to have at least some interest in the bank, this is quite obvious. The stability of our banking system is reliable, the stability of the banking system is high. I repeat, lending is growing.

You asked me: what can Russia do to create conditions, to live independently of these sanctions and to develop sustainably? I think this is a good example, and we need to unite the efforts of all those who are interested in this, to achieve this agreement and balance of interest, which I have already mentioned many times. And then, without any doubt, success will be assured.

Let's finish here.

Fyodor Lukyanov: Finally.

Mr President, I began by looking forward to seeing you very much. It seems to me that we will leave extremely satisfied and will think for a long time. Sitting here, it is difficult for me to [evaluate] – of course, the impressions may be different, but I think this is one of our most successful discussions in terms of both covering the topics and the general atmosphere.

Thank you very much, and we look forward to seeing you in a year from now.

Vladimir Putin: All right.

I want to express my gratitude to our moderator, the moderator. And of course, I would like to thank you all for the interest with which you treat relations with Russia, I mean, first of all, of course, our foreign guests.

I would like to thank all the Valdai Club experts for working at this venue and, of course, making a significant contribution to the brainstorming sessions that are so necessary, including for making decisions at the practical level.

Thank you. Best regards.